Bringing Extinct Species Back to Life | Dr. Beth Shapiro
📚 main topics
- What counts as a speciesSpecies are human-defined categories, not fixed boxes imposed by biology. Different concepts—such as ability to produce fertile offspring, genetic similarity, or geographic range—serve different purposes. 3:37
- Ancient human interbreedingAncient DNA shows that Homo sapiens interbred with Neanderthals and Denisovans. Many people today carry some Neanderthal ancestry, and studying it helps researchers understand human evolution and how inherited variants can affect traits and disease. 9:19
- Choosing species for de-extinctionPractical choices depend on whether usable DNA exists, whether there is a meaningful ecological role to restore, and whether the work can be done responsibly. Dinosaur DNA is too degraded to recover, whereas mammoth DNA has survived in cold environments. 32:09
- How de-extinction worksColossal compares ancient genomes with those of living relatives and edits selected traits into living animals. The aim is not to recreate an exact historical individual, but to make animals with key extinct traits that can live in modern environments. 51:22
- Direwolves and animal welfareThe direwolves were made by engineering 20 selected edits into a grey wolf genome. Researchers chose safer genetic routes for traits such as light-colored coats and are studying the animals rather than planning to release them into the wild. 56:35
- Conservation applicationsThe technologies developed for de-extinction can also support living endangered species, including by cloning black-footed ferrets to restore genetic diversity and exploring genetic changes that could help northern quolls resist cane-toad toxin. 1:13
- Ecological effects and oversightReintroductions and genetic interventions can affect whole ecosystems, so they require staged testing, ecological assessment, regulatory oversight, and input from local communities and stakeholders. 1:03:47
- Human genetic technologiesThe conversation considers embryo screening, gene editing, and a bespoke CRISPR treatment that cured an infant’s rare genetic disease. Shapiro argues that these tools raise difficult questions about safety, access, choice, and effects on future generations. 1:29:14
- Artificial womb researchTechnologies developed to support animal reproduction could eventually help human medicine, including by supporting premature babies or allowing treatment when a pregnancy complicates urgent care. 1:55:04
✨ key takeaways
- De-extinction and conservation share toolsShapiro says the same technologies, research needs, and investment can advance both de-extinction and efforts to prevent living species from going extinct. 1:13:09
- Ecosystems need resilienceRestoring or protecting species can help revive ecological interactions and create more robust ecosystems, but each intervention must be assessed for its likely effects. 35:47
- Doing nothing is also a decisionWhen habitats are changing too quickly for natural adaptation to keep pace, rejecting every intervention can mean accepting further biodiversity loss. 1:25:06
- Safety must guide genetic choicesEven when an edit could reproduce an extinct trait, the team may choose a different method if the original genetic route could harm the animal. 58:39
- Public trust depends on engagementShapiro emphasizes open communication and meaningful involvement from local communities, rather than leaving decisions solely to scientists or companies. 1:26:11
🧠 lessons learned
- Species labels are toolsWhether two populations are called separate species depends partly on the concept being used; a label alone does not settle the ecological or scientific questions. 8:18
- Genes have context-dependent effectsA genetic variant can be helpful in one setting and harmful in another, as illustrated by Neanderthal-derived immune variants associated with different outcomes. 26:26
- Conservation is active stewardshipPeople already influence ecosystems through protection, breeding, vaccination, species movement, and habitat changes, so decisions about intervention should acknowledge that responsibility. 1:07:26
- Evaluate risks before releaseReintroduction should proceed gradually, with attention to animal welfare, ecosystem conditions, and the potential for competition with living species. 1:03:47
- Technology’s delivery shapes public responsePeople may react differently to a tool depending on how it is introduced and explained, making clear communication important as new capabilities develop. 1:52:28
🏁 conclusion/next steps
- Continue research and conservationShapiro describes work on de-extinction alongside projects aimed at helping endangered species, with further development needed before any future release of de-extinct animals. 2:00:14
- Keep communities involvedDecisions about whether, where, and how to restore species should include the people who will be affected and may become their long-term stewards. 1:26:41
- Discuss human applications earlyAs genetic technologies advance, sustained public discussion can help people weigh potential benefits, risks, and ethical limits before their use becomes widespread. 1:57:09
Transcript excerpt
0:00 So our direwolves, they have 20 edits that we picked and we sequenced genomes from fossil direwolves. We learned from those genomes what genetic changes made those animals bigger, more robust, light colored in coat and then we engineered those changes into a greywolf genome to recreate the direwolf. You know, I often get the question of why are you thinking about bringing extinct species back to life? Why aren't you thinking about helping living species not become extinct? And the answer is we are doing
0:31 both. It is the same tools. It's the same technology. It's the same needs. And when we excite people with the idea of mammoths and dodos and thylacines, we get more engagement and enthusiasm and investment in developing the technology that we can use to stop living species from becoming extinct. >> Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
1:01 I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Beth Shapiro. Dr. Beth Shapiro is an evolutionary biologist. She was a professor at UC Santa Cruz and an investigator with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute before leaving to become chief scientific officer at Colossal Biosciences. Her work at Colossal is focused on what is called deextincting species such as the woolly mammoth, the dodo bird, and the direwolf, meaning bringing them back to
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Questions & Answers
Common questions about this video
How does Colossal create direwolves using ancient DNA?
Researchers sequenced fossil direwolf genomes to identify genetic changes associated with traits such as larger size, a more robust build, and a light-colored coat. They then engineered selected changes into a gray wolf genome. 56:35
Why does Beth Shapiro say the goal is not to recreate an extinct animal exactly?
The animals are not genetically identical to any individual that lived in the past. Instead, the team focuses on traits shared by extinct animals but different from their living relatives, aiming to create animals capable of displaying key extinct traits and, in some projects, living in the relevant habitat. 52:24
Why can’t scientists bring back dinosaurs using the same approach?
DNA breaks down after an organism dies, and the oldest DNA recovered so far came from a mammoth bone roughly one to two million years old. Dinosaurs went extinct more than 66 million years ago, far beyond the timescale on which recoverable DNA is expected to survive. 32:41
How could restoring large herbivores help tundra ecosystems?
Large animals can disturb soil, distribute seeds and nutrients, and scrape snow away while searching for food. At Pleistocene Park, researchers have observed that animals such as bison, horses, deer, and muskoxen can help create a varied landscape that supports a wider diversity of plants. 36:18
How could genetic engineering help protect the northern quoll?
Cane toads are toxic to northern quolls, which can die after eating them. Other mammals can tolerate the toxin because of a single-letter genetic change affecting one amino acid; Colossal Australia partners have made that change in a quoll and are investigating whether it could help the species survive. 1:13:41
How are cloning and genetic engineering being used to support black-footed ferrets?
Cloning has been used to bring back genetic diversity from preserved tissue samples of ferrets that were unrelated to the animals used in the captive-breeding population. Researchers are also studying whether genetic engineering could help the ferrets resist plague, a major threat to them in the wild. 1:44:14
Why does Shapiro argue that doing nothing about threatened species is also a choice?
She argues that habitats are changing too rapidly for some species to adapt through natural selection alone. Refusing to use tools such as translocation, assisted reproduction, or genetic modification can mean accepting a future with less biodiversity. 1:24:35
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